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If the reports are true, a moment of weakness doesn't seem to me as the equal to months of an affair, buying her an Escalade, meeting her family, etc.

If I'm going to choose to be a role model for anyone, it would be my own kids - who now have to grow up without their father at all - and not the kids that watch me on tv or visit my football camps. And when his kids find out just how he died, their mom is left to answer those questions, and the kids have to live with it.

When good people do bad things that doesn't mean you can gloss over the bad things. And when your life ends because of the bad things, you obviously can't redeem yourself.

Who knows, maybe he was killed because he decided that this relationship wasn't the right thing to do.

This sounds like a pretty good summary to me:

The moral values of this country are declining rather rapidly in my opinion. People are becoming way too tolerable of immoral attitudes and lifestyles. The media has "Hollywoodized" damn near everything it reports on nowadays and people have been lured into a sense of "oh well". Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Michael Jackson, etc. - to pull the things they have pulled but yet can get away with it mainly because they are of the glamour society, speaks volumes to me that morality no longer is at the forefront of one's convictions of a moral blueprint for our fellow man.

I'm sure there are more of the moral as opposed to the amoral men still walking the streets but you seldom hear about them. I'm a long way from being perfect but I try to live my life with the philosophy that if I die today I hope I'm remembered for the way I went out. As Trey said, redemption is no longer an option for McNair and to know his legacy will be remembered by many by the way he died and what led to it kind of puts a dark cloud over that legacy.

Oh well.

Can't bad people do good thing sometimes? How do you distinguish the difference?



Yes, quick to judge – but to judge doesn't necessarily mean to come to a negative conclusion. You're just as quick in your judgement that he was a great and wonderful man who, oops, messed up.

Assuming he's some great guy is judging as well. And if it's too early to make assumptions, why can we assume he was a "good guy"?

And I don't even mean just specifically about McNair, but that line of thinking in general. Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm just appauled that some people are calling him every bad thing under the sun and some have even (maybe in jest) blamed him for his tragic ending. He did a lot of good for the communities for which he lived and came from and was a tremendous athlete who played the right way. He never put himself above the team and played football the way it should be played and generally that comes from the type of man he is.

Now maybe he didn't have a "moment" of weakness but he messed up, pretty bad....but does that make him "bad"? Like I said, I know a guy who is literally the BEST guy you'd ever hope to meet and he did something along the same lines as McNair, I never thought he'd be capable of doing that either...he messed up, but he wasn't a bad guy. Aside from this instance he lived life the way you should for the most part. After this incident, he made peace with his family and wife and starting looking over his life and why he did what he did and looked to God for advice. Now, he and his wife have never been closer and he's happier now than he was before and that's shocking considering how happy he was before. He's a great guy who did something not so great...it happens and I think we should be more forgiving instead of condemning for peoples' mistakes. I'm not saying people should cheat and just be forgiven and then they continue to do the same behavior...I mean, if someone wants to be forgiven for the right reasons...why not give them a chance. Is that not the moral thing to do? We shouldn't condemn everyone who commits a sin because they messed up...and also, no sin is greater than the other, just to clarify. We have all done something "unmoral"...most of us did fairly innocent things that don't amount to much, but that doesn't take away the fact that we did something wrong, and you don't hear people clammering about how immoral you are...anyways...I was just appauled that people were so quick to make him into a monster or even throw OJ into the conversation. Why aren't you clammering about Kobe? He cheated on his wife (and alledgedly raped a woman) and everyone forgave him and he is viewed as a good guy with the way he handled it. Believe me, I was mad at him for doing what he did, but now I'm cool with him...as long as he reamains faithful. Why is Steve McNair's a bad guy and Kobe a good guy? I am strongly opposed to adultery but I believe that forgiveness is something that we should provide to those who deserve it, and I feel McNair is one of those people.

Steve McNair, while he did something bad and something that I REALLY disagree with, is still one of the greatest/nicest athletes of all time. He did more good than bad and that's how I'm going to remember him...you are entitled to your opinion, but just don't put him on blast for doing wrong when everyone does something wrong and don't make this into a conversation about this one bad thing he did. I'm sure everyone here has done something that they wouldn't want to be remembered by, even if you choose to live your life the righteous way. We all have done something that, if we died soon after it, we wouldn't want that to be the last thing we were remembered for doing.

And that is what you call have a conscious. Ignoring it can sometimes be detrimental to one's character. Having an adulterous relationship is not the same thing as getting a DUI. I'm sure he knew what he was doing was wrong. It's rather hard to show forgiveness to someone who hasn't asked for it himself.

Great points by everyone! He's dead now..can we move on?

(same thing you'll hear at my funeral I'm sure)

Ugghhhh ... nevermind, screw it. You wouldn't understand anyway. Not worth carrying on.

I am rapidly losing faith in our schools.

Agreed! He's gone and what's the point of arguing over him (especially considering how hard-headed all of us seem to be)

Just to clarify, what am I not understanding??? So since I show compasion, our schools are bad???

I never said cheating was a good thing nor did I say McNair was a saint...I said that everyone has faults and everyone does something bad and why should we condemn him for this when we alll do bad things? He was murdered by a crazy b.....I mean, woman. Shouldn't that be enough? Do we need to drag him through the "mud"? And that shall be my last comment about this.

Also, just to clear up a point...he never bought her the Escalade. He was the co-signer and she was making the payments...saw it on yahoo sports if you don't wanna take my word for it.

Well, since you asked ...

It has nothing to do with you being compassionate (which is fine, by the way. It's a nice trait.) and everything to do with you coming across as a blithering idiot. That you were able to graduate high school and be admitted into a four-year university with your remedial analytical (and spelling) skills is a little disheartening.

Every time you post I can't help but think of that scene from Billy Madison



"Mr. UCA Tuba, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

It's like you recognize the words you're seeing, but you're not really reading the sentences and absorbing their meaning. And then when you reply, it's just a big ol' mess of tangents. And random quotation marks.

Stuff like not understanding what I was getting at by mentioning OJ Simpson (which I clearly already said – I wasn't comparing the two directly, I was saying that "he was a good teammate and didn't break NFL rules" is a bad standard to determine whether a guy is good or not, because a lot of different types of people can fall into that same broad category).

Or not understanding why it's illogical to say that we shouldn't judge people (especially when we don't know them) but then go on to say that they're good people. That's still making a judgment. How do you not understand that? Or are you just saying it's not okay to think somebody is bad?

Or not being able to give a reason how you differentiate between good people who do bad things, or bad people who do good things. It works both ways.

And I don't think I've once said anything resembling condemnation of Steve McNair. Just because I'm not getting in line and singing his undue praises doesn't mean I'm condemning the guy. There's this thing, it's sorta new and you may want to research it, called "middle ground". I spend a lot of time there. It's a good place. Come on in, the water's fine.

And then there's stuff like just randomly dragging Kobe's name into the deal when nobody's argued anything about Kobe Bryant one way or the other. Nobody was ripping on Kobe, but nobody was sticking up for him or anything. You just reached up into the air, pulled out the first disgraced athlete's name you could find, and inserted it into the conversation.

(And no, it's not the same as me using OJ. I was using OJ to make a point. You're using Kobe to create an argument that isn't there. Sort of like you were doing with the Houston wide receiver vs. the band.)

Oh and just because Yahoo! Sports says McNair wasn't paying for the Escalade doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it untrue either, but it's not a stretch to assume that he's giving her money and she's making the payments. Don't believe everything you read/hear.



(do you understand what I'm getting at with the photo?)

And then there's also you somehow thinking that my lack of faith in the school system has anything to do with your compassion instead of your intelligence (or lack thereof).

There's probably more, but I've got other stuff I'd rather be doing. And you're not going to understand half of this anyway.

In closing, in very plain English, let me say that I do not necessarily think Steve McNair was a bad person. None of this was even about Steve McNair for me. It was about people believing he was some sort of great human being, and not being open to other opinions. It's about flawed logic and closed-minded thinking – two things I'm not a big fan of.

We could've been discussing Michael Jackson or Ed McMahon or Billy Mays for all I care.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question. If you have any more, let me know and I'll try to answer.

True enough....besides it distracts people from the real issues of the day which is very beneficial to the media's friends in government....

Beary Manilow,

I will give you that I do tend to ramble on and I do find it hard to get my point across quite often...that much I will give you.

But where do you get off attacking me in such a way? I'm sorry if I attacked you personally, I never thought I mentioned you by name or anything like that, but if I did or said anything directly to you...sorry. I got the impression that the general message from this board was negative towards a man who was brutally murdered recently. I found that offensive especially since he cannot stick up for himself. I was raised to not say hateful things or jump to broad generalizations about those who can't defend theirselves. Did I make a generalization that he was a good guy? Possibly, but I'd rather do that than just assume he's a bad guy...plus, it's the general opinion of most sports writers and NFL players/coaches that this guy was a good guy and they knew him better than any of us on here...

Also, you don't go blasting someone for the one bad thing you can dig up on the guy and say he's immoral when everyone messes up...that's the point of all of my ramblings. I'm sure we can all dig up something on each other and use that against each other, but does that make us more moral than the other? You just don't approach the situation like that in my opinion. "Let he without sin" sorta thing...

I'm thinking I may leave the board if I have to put up with personal attacks...that shows real maturity on your part...

This is starting to resemble the ASU board.

I wouldn't leave this board b/c one person is personally attacking me. You have as much right to post your opinion as any other.

That sounds like something a 2nd grader would say....If you can dish it out, you better be able to take it. I don't see anyone vulgarly attacking you on here. That's just an immature statement.